A few years ago I was having dinner with my friend Bri when he began to lament his propects on the dating scene.
“I tell you, Nay, its hard out there for a guy like me to get a date,” Bri opined while buttering his bread. “No one is dating white men anymore. No one! You like Asian guys, Bethany likes black guys, Trace is dating the hispanics and Rachel is living with an Austrian.”
“But Austrians are white…”
“Yeah, but its not the same thing,” he quipped and went on and on about the plight of the diminishing white male on the dating scene.
I want to feel sorry for him. I do. Science Fiction has promised us a lot of things that its reneged on. Like jet packs, our own personal flying cars, interplanetary travel and, for white men, the joy of macking all across the galaxy. When Captain Kirk was locking lips with every green, purple and polka dot honey across the galaxy (accept he had to be forced to kiss Lieut’ Uhura, but I’ll save it for another post) I’m sure every young hetero white boy was watching the screen and thinking of their own manifest destiny, if not across the universe but at least across the globe.
But for Bri he claims that’s just not happening right now. I think he’s just feeling a bit sorry for himself because on the superficial dating hierarchy his category (SWM) may not be at the top but it’s definitely not at the bottom. But it appears there are a lot of SWM feeling the same way as Bri and they are not going to take it anymore even if they have to start a 12 step group to do it.
Someone the other day pointed me to White Males Anonymous, which is a group for white males who want to, in my estimation, take back their sexual dominance across the planet. The hottest women, be they black, white, yellow, brown, or red belong to them. They sit back and think about the days before the women’s movement and posture how white women are the ones who in the biggest IR dating group although all stats show that AF/WMs have the biggest numbers.
The site says its against racism (kudos for that) but I can’t help but feel that women are viewed a bit like chattel and get an overwhelming sense of self pity. With all things beginning to level off (accept for Black Women and Asian Men) in the IR dating field won’t there be some people that will come out the losers on all sides if they don’t step up their game? If Waldo doesn’t get the perfect abs (or at least a good IRA) won’t he lose out to Tyrone the baller or Wen-cho the tax accountant?
In a recent study it showed that most women want to date within their own racial groups, especially black women. Most men had to earn more than the men in their racial group before most of the women would consider dating out. So its not necessarily women looking at men for their looks, but for security, which is what we have done throughout history.
I ran into Bri today. He’s still single, but I think he likes to be single. The last time he cried the whoa is me song an Asian girl took him home for the night. She didn’t see him again because he wasn’t in the right financial bracket.
15 comments
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8 June, 2007 at 11:26 am
XQJ37
Just because white guys want to be treated equal in the dating scene doesn’t equate to “wanting dominance”. If wanting t to be treated equal equated to “desiring dominance”, that would mean Martin Luther King Jr. desired dominance. That would mean black women desire dominance in the dating scene. That would mean Asian men desire dominance in the dating scene.
Using captain Kirk in Star Trek as an example of white male dominance in the dating scene is not only 40 years outdated, it is a TV show.
The truth is for the last 15 years or so in many geographic areas, white males ARE being looked over. Dating trends before that mean little to those who are in their 30s or younger who have only known what it is like to be considered less than adequate our whole adult dating lives.
The statistics you mention pertain to MARRIAGE, not dating. Many IR couples never marry. And it’s a well known fact that black men are much less likely to marry than white men, so a vast majority of black male/white femail couples never get counted in those statistics.
And in most non-coastal cities there is a very small Asian population, so the only couples that one sees involve a white woman. Dating trends in New York have no affect on the lives of one who lives in Ohio.
8 June, 2007 at 1:06 pm
rentec
All is fair in love and war so no, there will not be equal treatment in the dating scene.
Actually, I live in OH funny you should use that as an example. As racially stratified as my city is, I am still more likely to see a white male in an IR pairings (either AF or now BF) as well as BM (usually the ubiquitous wf/bm couples).
Personally, I don’t see WMs being overlooked on the dating scene but there is just much more competition. If anyone is being overlooked its AMs.
8 June, 2007 at 5:05 pm
XQJ37
I’ve been to several cities in Ohio, and I saw more AM/WF pairings that WM/AF.
I’m not saying that WMs are overlooked in ALL cities. But I know that in many they are. In those cities, WMs have a legitimate issue,
Regarding the “alls fair in love and war” mentallity, if that’s true, then BW and AM should not be able to complain either.
I personally think that there is nothing wrong with people RECOGNIZING the situation, EXPOSING the trend and alerting others to the situation and sharing opinions and ideas for how to improve their situation. If, after all, “all is fair in love and war” as you claim, than you should not have a problem with this. After all, “all is fair”.
8 June, 2007 at 7:09 pm
rentec
We will just have to agree to disagree on this. I see way more AF/WM pairings than I do the other way around. I still see more BM/WF paired together although recently there has been a boost in the profile of BF/WM.
As a black female I realize that there is a problem in the IR dating (and just regular dating) scene. But I don’t sit an whine about it. Well, I didn’t when I was single, but since I’m married now I still don’t have too many single female friends who sit and opine about the lack of males.
>>I personally think that there is nothing wrong with people RECOGNIZING the situation, EXPOSING the trend and alerting others to the situation and sharing opinions and ideas for how to improve their situation.
8 June, 2007 at 9:37 pm
XQJ37
I don’t know what city you live in, but all throughout IN, IL, MI, KY, OH, and PA I see primarily WW in almost all IR couples. Not only are there hardly any AF/WM couples, there are hardly any Asians PERIOD from what I’ve seen.
And what you call “whining” I call addressing a problem. It wasn’t “whining” when Dr. Martin Luther King junior pointed out how black people were treated unfairly was it? No.
It is also not “whining” if someone today speaks out about how they are unfairly treated. I think it is a POSITIVE thing when someone fights racism by exposing racist trends in society.
And as a BW, you should be aware that 70% of BW are single. You may think that this isn’t a problem. Or perhaps you see it is a problem that no longer affects you since you are no longer single. Regardless, you are affected by it, even if you are married.
On one of the pages on the site whose link you provided, there is a section on interracial relationships and the laws of supply and demand. I highly urge you to read that and see how the laws of supply and demand affect ALL black women, not just the single ones. Of course the site is targeting white males, but the situation is even far worse for BW.
9 June, 2007 at 1:17 pm
rentec
I can’t comment on what you’ve seen but with my own eyes I have seen more than a few white males with Asian females and I have white male friends who have married Asian females.
I don’t appreciate the way you trivialize the struggle of equality and oppression of black people to your perceived view or racism on the dating scene. The two do not equate. MLK was fighting for justice of a suppressed people; black people were being terrorized, civil rights were neglected and there was no justice under the law for us. What you are espousing does not compare. There is no systematic neglect on the dating scene of white men because there can’t be: people will choose to be with whom they want.
>>On one of the pages on the site whose link you provided, there is a section on interracial relationships and the laws of supply and demand.
10 June, 2007 at 11:37 am
Shygurl
rentec
“I can’t comment on what you’ve seen but with my own eyes I have seen more than a few white males with Asian females and I have white male friends who have married Asian females.”
I can say that in Indiana it is pretty much white women in almost every inter-racial couple. Especially in Fort Wayne. For example I saw 5 IR couples Friday alone and every one of them was black male/white female. I saw 3 saturday; 2 were black male/white female and 1 was Asian male/white female.
” The two do not equate. MLK was fighting for justice of a suppressed people; black people were being terrorized, civil rights were neglected and there was no justice under the law for us. What you are espousing does not compare. ”
Discrimination is discrimination regardless of whether it is professional or social. You cannot pick and choose which form is acceptable and which is not. Unfair treatment is still unfair treatment. It is either all acceptable or it is all unnacceptable. Otherwise you are a hypocrite.
“There is no systematic neglect on the dating scene of white men because there can’t be: people will choose to be with whom they want. ”
There can be and there is. I know as a black woman that there is systematic neglect of black women. The abundance of black male/white female couples makes that abundantly clear. Of course the prevailance of this coupling does not only result in black women being overlooked, but white males being overlooked.
The fact that people choose to be with whom they want does not excuse the racial injustice that results. If it was just a matter of people “choosing who they want” there would not be such a drastic disparity. Obviously, there are racial stereotypes behind many of these decisions.
As black women, we are being treated unfairly in this regard. The fact that you are unwilling to do anything to improve our situation is bad enough. And the fact that you actually attempt to mock and embarrass those who are is just plain sad. I realize that not everyone has the courage to break out of their little box that society has put them in and rock the boat, but for god’s sake, at least don’t mock those that do.
And for the record, I don’t think the other commentor was “trivializing” MLK’s struggle. But I DO think you are trivializing the struggle of those who are overlooked socially because of their race. Personally, I think that form of discrimination is even WORSE because we are being passed over BY OUR OWN. In the past, the black community was united. Now, black women get no compassion from black men. In fact, it is primarily the actions of black men that are causing our lack of self-worth. This pysychological abandonment is nothing less than traitorous, and in my opinion the results are far more devastating. After all, who is our support base when the very men who SHOULD be there to support us are the perpetrators against us?
10 June, 2007 at 12:59 pm
XQJ37
“There is no systematic neglect on the dating scene of white men because there can’t be: people will choose to be with whom they want.”
In the past, the NAACP appealed to the media industry to stop portraying black people negatively. The reason was because the NAACP was very aware of the negative social impact that stereotypes cause. Likewise, one could not be so naive to assume that media portrayals and stereotypes today don’t influence one’s choices (at least subliminally) when choosing whom they want to be with. So your reasoning that white men are not being neglected in the dating scene simply because people choose whom the want to be with holds no water.
Where you live, white men very well might be doing fine. But where I live white men and black women alike are being passed over and have been consistantly for the last 15 years or so.
“I don’t appreciate the way you trivialize the struggle of equality and oppression of black people to your perceived view or racism on the dating scene.”
You missed my point entirely. My point is not to compare the extent of the struggles, but to illustrate that bringing awareness to a problem is not “whining”. I did not notice a “woe is me” mentallity on the website. Instead I saw the author trying to spread awareness of the problem (and where I live it IS a problem), offer ideas of what is causing it, and possible solutions to solve it. That does not sound like whining to me, but pro-active problem solving.
10 June, 2007 at 1:25 pm
rentec
Shygurl,
What government agency is discriminating against black women so it limits their choices in dating? What politician is a proponent of making laws that keeps black women on the bottom rung of the dating hierarchy? Which business do you plan to boycott to get things to change?
“The fact that people choose to be with whom they want does not excuse the racial injustice that results. If it was just a matter of people “choosing who they want” there would not be such a drastic disparity.”"
It is because people are free to choose whom they want that is causing the racial disparity. At this point in history black males are more in demand as mates (or sexual partners) as opposed to Asian males or white males.
“Obviously, there are racial stereotypes behind many of these decisions. I know as a black woman that there is systematic neglect of black women. The abundance of black male/white female couples makes that abundantly clear.”
What system is out to keep black males from black women? Do you have concrete proof that there is a conspiracy emerging to keep black women single?
“Of course the prevailance of this coupling does not only result in black women being overlooked, but white males being overlooked.”
The two are mutually exclusive. If white males are being overlooked as badly as black women then why aren’t their marriage rates just as low as ours?
“The fact that you are unwilling to do anything to improve our situation is bad enough. And the fact that you actually attempt to mock and embarrass those who are is just plain sad. I realize that not everyone has the courage to break out of their little box that society has put them in and rock the boat, but for god’s sake, at least don’t mock those that do.”
I didn’t mock or embarass anyone. All I did was critically look an alledged problem (the discrimination of white males on the dating scene) and found the argument lacking.
“Discrimination is discrimination regardless of whether it is professional or social. You cannot pick and choose which form is acceptable and which is not. Unfair treatment is still unfair treatment. It is either all acceptable or it is all unnacceptable. Otherwise you are a hypocrite.”
Have you dated every person that has ever shown an interest in you? I know I haven’t because I am allowed to pick and choose who I want to spend my time with. According to whatever single person you are speaking with the single scene is never fair. I know a guy who is a fat biracial gay man who could get no love (or a date) with men. You can even look up reviews of his one man show, it was called “No Sex in this City”. Was he discriminated against? In your eyes, most likely yes but I would still say no. People are allowed to decide who they want to be with on whatever level they want to, even if it is superficial.
“Personally, I think that form of discrimination is even WORSE because we are being passed over BY OUR OWN. In the past, the black community was united. Now, black women get no compassion from black men. In fact, it is primarily the actions of black men that are causing our lack of self-worth. This pysychological abandonment is nothing less than traitorous, and in my opinion the results are far more devastating. After all, who is our support base when the very men who SHOULD be there to support us are the perpetrators against us?”
Traitorous? How can they be traitors if you are espousing dating white men? Wouldn’t that make you traitor, too, or are you dating white males for revenge?
I don’t agree with “payback” dating. I believe in love for love’s sake; I don’t advocate IR dating to get back at a certain group or to help assuage the hurt because of a slight perceived by a group of people. If you are looking for that type of reflection or angry writing you will be deeply disappointed with my blogs because you won’t find it here.
I have no anger towards black men nor do I encourage other people to do so. Anger is a wasted emotion and especially when its directed toward strangers. Its better for one to change themselves since they can’t change the outcome in this situation.
But I do have to thank you and XQJ37 for dropping your commments. Not because you have changed my mind but you have given me a different outlook on my city. Before I thought it was regressive and I hardly had anything good to say about it to outsiders, but now from the reporting of you two I see we aren’t as backwards as I thought.
10 June, 2007 at 5:54 pm
shygurl
“What government agency is discriminating against black women so it limits their choices in dating?
There are many more forms of discrimination besides political discrimination. It’s quite obvious that many black men view “blackness” in women as a handicap that must be overcome. For example, take two women of equal attractiveness, body type, and temperment; one black and one white. Nine times out of ten, black men will go for the white woman. Black women have to be extra attractvie, extra fit, and extra accomodating to be given the same consideration that white women have. This is discrimination. And the fact that it’s coming from our own men makes it worse.
What’s causing the lack of dating choices for black women is the fact that black men seem so eager to date outside the race while black women are brainwashed into thinking that only black men are worthy. (Not surprisingly, it is usually black males who are doing the brainwashing).
“What politician is a proponent of making laws that keeps black women on the bottom rung of the dating hierarchy? ”
There is no politition and no laws that keep black women on the bottom rung. It is a matter of supply and demand. Black men are in high demand, while black women are not. This causes black women to have to jump through hoops to be with a black man and then feel “lucky” when she gets one no matter what type of treatment she recieves. This is not right. An average black man and an average black woman should both feel lucky to have each other, not one feeling lucky while the other calls all the shots.
Politicians are not to blame for this. The black men who try to keep black women in a little box are to blame, and the black women who defend those black men are to blame.
“Which business do you plan to boycott to get things to change? ”
I’m glad that you brought this up. It is not one business. This mentallity is, that blackness in women is a handicap, is perpetuated in the media. Black women are often invisible, or are only a side character, and are hardly ever the charming attractive lead. More often than not, black women are portrayed as fat, loud, rude, and unattractive. To drive home the point, most of the better known black female roles in movies these days are played by black men in drag exagerating how unnattractive black women are (I’m sure you know what movies I’m talking about).
Personally, I encourage black women to boycott ANY type of media that perpetuates the stereotype of the “studly black male” and/or the “unnatractive black female” because it is both of these stereotypes that are leading to the 70% single rate for black women.
I would also encourage you to visit this blog:
http://bfinterracialmarriage.blogspot.com/index.html
10 June, 2007 at 6:36 pm
rentec
Shytec,
I have already been to Evia’s website and I have passed it on to a few of my friends. I like what she is doing but I don’t always agree with her zealousness.
And although you seem to characterize black men as getting together to collaborate to keep black women down I don’t think black males are that organized; they aren’t that deep. Black women have a hand in it also. So perhaps you should redirect your attention from black men to black women.
11 June, 2007 at 11:23 am
shygurl
Rentec,
Actually I pointed out in my post that I blame the black men who keep black women in a box AND the black women who support them (and there are a lot).
I agree that a lot of it is not necessarily organized per se, but it exists none the less. And there are specific targets that we can focus on that are obvious tools used to keep black women at the bottom of the social ladder. Specific movies that portray us as hideous are some example. The rap industry that portrays black men as modern day folk heroes, and black women as little more than accessories. Others are magazines such as Essence which do nothing but push the black male agenda at the expense of the black female.
Also, formal organizations such as NAACP which claim to be for “the black community” are really only looking out for black males. But then, as time goes on, I’m beginning to think that there is no difference between the two.
Regardless, I don’t think it is necessary for us to just sit back and “accept” the fact that we are treated this way just because “life is unfair”. If we accept that it is unfair, it will continue to be unfair. But if we decide we don’t like our treatment, we can do something about it and make a difference, but if we don’t get the word out how we are being treated unfairly, how it affects us, and what we can do to fight it, nothing will ever change.
16 December, 2007 at 10:59 pm
sean
you guys are a bunch of hicks! visit the west coast-wm/af couples are everywhere. white women are getting freaked out by the wm/af dating phenomenom.
29 February, 2008 at 1:36 am
john mackinlay
White males not dominating? Are you F***ING kidding me? They’re the only ones dating and EXPLOITING non-white women. You need to stop denying this little factoid and trying to make them look bad when the non-whites are infact getting the shaft, you oblivious idiot..
That anonymous website seriously made me laugh-out-loud. Pathetic, roflmfao.. They can keep DREAMING, though.. Even though their little fantasies will never come to light. Quit blaming it on the minorities and coming on with such FAKE, false confidence.
(comment edited by moderator)
11 May, 2008 at 2:38 pm
wpm1955
Well, I think the people in this group ought to read “Romance on the Road” which is a very interesting and readable 400-page sociological study on Western women’s experiences with travel romances, reverse sex tourism, and inter-cultural marriage. I just finished reading it and thought it was one of the most interesting books I’ve read in a while. Furthermore, it compares women’s experiences with men from all over the globe, stopping just short of rating them by culture and group. Anyway, it’s a serious, but readable book, and well worth the $35 price.
Madame Monet
Writing, Painting, Music, and Wine
winewriter.wordpress.com